Oov Discussion

Intro

Kristi Introduces the creator of the Oov, Daniel Vladeta.

Hi everyone. It's Christie here. I we're down at the [inaudible] anytime main office in El Segundo, California. And I came down today, especially because of, uh, an experience I had yesterday on a new tool that pilates instructors and students are using all around the world. Uh, in fact, people like Brent Anderson, Elizabeth Larkam are starting to incorporate this new tool called the oof into their practices. And after my own experience, I really wanted to take advantage of the opportunity. I had to speak with the creator, the founder, the inventor of the oof O v uh, Danielle Bla Eta. So thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Um, I think it's important to say that, you know, I don't even know really what to call it.

The it part of me thinks that I originally thought it was a prop, um, but there's more going on and so I really wanted to just find out more. And so that's what this is. We, we will have classes on PyLadies anytime now. Thank you very much. And I'm trying to figure out what happened to me yesterday and what really inspired this tool. And maybe we can just point it out so we can, um, let people see what it is and it's here and it's, it looks simple enough. Right. Well, we'll tell you more, but, um, let me start by having you speak to who you are. If you would, are you applies instructor? No, no, I'm not applied as instructor. I have done plots for a long time. Um, I think we talked about it yesterday, that um, when you do elite sport in Australia, that plot is, is used as a form of training. Um, it's an amazing, uh, east centric motor control training.

I think that's where it's real strength is. Um, I studied osteoporotic neuroscience and biomedical engineering. So I've had a really diverse background. So I was a clinician, a manual therapist. Um, I studied neuroscience to understand how to start talking to people's bodies, like to communicate through their sensory re proprioceptive experiences. And then I, uh, by chance happened to end up in the medical device industry for nine years. So I got to really see how surgical devices and medical devices are actually designed, created, and made. Hence why I am where I am now.

Chapter 1

What is the Oov? Daniel Vladeta explains. Pt 1

Okay, let me start with this. What is the move? What is the, if it's um, it is really a, uh, a self regulating feedback device for you to, to almost have an experience of your own body on it's, it turns something that is, it can be as something which is subjective or like someone telling you something that's going on in body to an objective experience for yourself. Um, something that you start to learn about your own body. You start to feel things happening in your own body rather than someone telling you what's going on in your body. Dude, just to be clear that you [inaudible] for me. You mean no one's telling you to inhale here or roll this way or lift that way.

It'll kind of give you feedback more than that is that you start to feel, and we'll talk about it in a minute, is you start to feel which side's more stable. You start to feel which side can move better. You start to feel which hip has got more mobility, which hip has got more control, which shoulder can move more. So your experiencing it without the normal compensations that your body does three-dimensionally when you're doing it standing. Okay.

How does an osteopath neuroscientist medical device, what are your salesman or medical device [inaudible] I worked in both. I worked [inaudible] I mean between our, uh, helping, uh, r and d guys communicate with surgeons and also in, in the sales side of it as well. How did, why did you make it, I mean, how do you get to all of a sudden I hear about it a lot in the Philadelphia community and I'm wondering, was that your goal to get it to the [inaudible] community? Was it to, why did I make it and they got the, the logical is the plot is community because they understand the principle and the backup. Why did you make it, why did I make it? Um, I made it to, to, to as a solution to some of the issues that I was experiencing on teaching my patients in our client's movement. Um, it's, it's really difficult to give someone verbal instructions and for them to understand how to move. So for me, it was very much a problem solving, a solution to giving someone an experience, um, where they can't cheat when they're actually on the device. They, they can't use all their old strategies and, or the old way of doing it. They have to find new ways to actually control their movement when they're, when they're on it. Um, so for me it was definitely trying to create a solution from working with clients and patients. And when you're a therapist, you can release lots of tissue. But to make that hold, when you do that, you have to encourage movement and teach the brain how to control that movement.

And so movements always been an integral part in what I do with my therapy. Um, but you know, getting someone to do that correctly was very, very difficult. And, and I'm think that most, um, movement therapists and instructors can relate that when you teach someone an exercise, they come back and you ask them to do it and they're doing something totally foreign. Is it because they're waiting for your instruction, our instruction. That's sometimes how I felt as that they were just becoming reliant on my instructions. Can you give me an example of what you mean by you had a hard time teaching it?

Because yes, we all have a hard time teaching it, but is it, is it that it won't stick? Um, is that it? I think, I think that it's everyone interprets information differently, you know, like auditory information. I think that when you explain something, um, everyone has their own subjective way of looking at it. So it's really hard to, to explain specifics when you know, to when you're teaching movement. I think also the other thing is, and, and I'm gonna Digress here, is that when you're lying someone flat on the ground, you have to give them more information to do certain things because their body is actually on something that is rigid. Hmm. So there's also, which is very different to when they're in space and they're having to balance three-dimensionally and control their body three dimensionally, you lie someone on something flat and all of a sudden the tension goes out of their tissues and their body isn't communicating three dimensionally, hence that when we try to teach movement, it's logical to lie them down to take one plane of control out out of [inaudible]. But however, as soon as you lay them on something flat, then the three dimensions communicate. Yes, it's, well, it's wrong because as soon as you do that, the tension relationship of three dimensionally of all the tissues in your body goes away and then we have to give more information to create that same movement. Right? Right. Does that make, yeah, it does. And I'm, what I'm thinking of from my own experience yesterday was, um, how, how so many times in teaching I'm thinking, how do I know what, where the source of this really is?

Do any of us know? Maybe our own bodies do? Well, I think I believe that. I believe that's true. I believe that the, the, we get into our own ways too much. I believe that the human body is the most amazing organism. It's way more intelligent than we give it credit for. Um, and I believe that our brain and our body wants to get better. Yeah. I believe it wants to be, it is the most efficient organism even in it's this function, right?

It's efficient and, and I believe we don't give it enough credit and I think a lot of the time that what we need to do is get ourselves out of the way to allow our body to do what it wants to do naturally is to do it the right way and organize itself. Yeah. It's, it's like it will do everything I can to either keep you alive or keep you functioning if that's a suitable competency. Yeah. That's the good news to actually in some titles, but we tend to punish or beat it out of Russell's or override it or override it, you know, it's not a dictatorship there. We talked about the dates team. It's about having that teamwork with your body. Tell me what it does like. Okay. I mean, show me whatever you're talking about.

Three-Dimensional movement and yeah, what does it do? So the idea behind it is that we're putting the body in a position where it never is at risk. Okay. For sure. So, yeah. So your experiences, and we'll touch on that in a bit, but like, so you know, the idea is when you're standing, your body's always making millions and micro-adjustments, you know, every second to control that movement. Yeah. And you know, again, if you lie someone on something flat, then you're taking that away from the nervous system. And I thought about it a lot and I had lots of prototypes and I, you know, and I've put loads of people in the ideal position for them, but then philosophically and theoretically that then it's wrong. As soon as you put them there to wrong, because their body is not having to make little micro adjustments and control that [inaudible] and that's the difference. Okay. So, so what I wanted to do was, you know, how do I put the body in a position? One, it's organized.

So the first one of the big philosophies you have of polarities is actually [inaudible] to lengthen the spine. So the reason it's got a curve in the bottom that as you lie on it, your spine is lengthened, number one. So you'd be lying on the top of lying. You're hitting your and your pelvis is here, your head's down here and you lengthen. Yeah. And what's so nice about that is that as soon as you do that, your head is lower than your heads. And as soon as your head is lower than your hips, you can't use your secondary respiratory muscles to breathe. And you go.

Hopefully you experienced that yesterday is you go into a diaphragmatic breathing pattern. Now the diaphragm skeletal muscle, and it is the only muscle that feeds into five systems in the body and it's skeletal muscle. So it's like your biceps or your or your hamstrings or your glutes. You can train it. Okay. And so it feeds into the [inaudible] heart rate, heart rate variability, the cardiac system, it feeds into the nervous system, the autonomic nervous system. So sympathetic fight or flight or parasympathetic. It feeds into the endocrine system.

So cortisol production, testosterone production, it fades into the muscular skeletal system. It's the top of our core, that cylinder that holds. But you're talking to a plot instructor. I know that I trained breath all the time and dire from, you know. Yeah I'm, I'm joking. Cause I know, I know the difference I felt yesterday. But the difference is how, when when you put the body in a situation that it's got no other choice, it goes into that primary respiratory breathing pattern. When you take one option, I e take that head lower than the hips. You're taking one away.

The brain's number one requirement is oxygen and c, you know it will, it will, it will not. You know, you can go days without water a month without food, but you cannot go more than a minute. I have some free athletes rate minutes, maybe I don't know about that. But you know the, the, the body will flip into its number one requirement, which is TBRI. So the, the next thing that,

Chapter 2

What is the Oov? Daniel Vladeta explains. Pt 2

what it does is that you've got cutaways here. So can I show it to the camera? The way it works is it fits alone. We use it in all different ways as you will, you'll see in the group class, but the primary way cause this way and what that what these are the Scapula cutaways, which enable your Scapula to move. Okay. You lost someone flat on the ground.

They scapular being artificially stabilized. Now I call the Scapula the kneecap for the pelvis for the pelvis. So the same way your kneecap moves and is there to actually help load 50 times more through the knee. It creates fit, you know, the same way that the scapula need to move to initiate either your anterior slings or posterior is linked to force, close the SACROILIAC joint to actually link the spine and pelvis together. And it requires on the Scapula to be able to do that. So they're like a kneecap. So the idea of artificially stabilizing them for me is not ideal functionally.

And we also train a lot of rotation and scapular required to encourage rotation. So again, it's very hard to initiate rotation when your scapular on the ground. Got It. Okay. Yep. Um, number three, the pelvis sits up off the ground. So we creating an open loop for the pelvis. So we're enabling the brain to actually, we're, first of all, we are enabling the pelvis to move in all plans. So tilting for front and back, side to side, and most importantly rotationally.

So therefore we're creating that movement and the ability to move, unlike when you're on the ground on something rigid, then the brain has to learn to control that movement. Right? Okay. You see where this is going. So the, and the hips are of the side, so they are up off the grants away. They encourage the ability for more hip movement and more hip function. So the idea of the herb is to create space and organize the body to then facilitate more movement. And then once we get that movement, then we have to train the brain to actually learn to control that movement. That makes sense.

Always to go the first step to controlling. And the other thing is that, you know, the, the main form of instability in Uber is rotational in this plane. So it's a really hard thing to teach. I think most people get that when they hunt forward and you can put someone in front of a mirror and go, yeah, that shoulder's lower than that. And then they get that they're off to one side.

But that twist to actually explained to them that that, you know, that pelvis is a little bit forward on that. So that's really hard to teach. I put someone on the move and get them to lift one leg up versus the other they pick up very good quickly, completely instantly did is to really know what to do. But it is instant, instant your experience going. Wow. All right. That one I can't lift up the other one. You know, and there's that. That what I'm talking about that feedback. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll just add now part of my experience, which is um, because it was so instant, things like that, that was really specific example for me. Even I'm picking up a leg and it was so shockingly different. Okay. And there was no time to even think about how to compensate for it. So the mind had to almost leave it. Yeah. And find a new way was figure it out.

I mean, not that you're going to hurt yourself. I'll be on the ground. But it was, it was just the pricing that I couldn't fall anyway. But it's, yeah, but, and, and then we go into the whole neuroscience of task space learning and the difference and what we're talking about before is that someone telling you and instructing you rather than going into task based learning. And then with my experience like that, when I, I stayed on, I swear it did really well. Pretty, yeah. I stayed on there was and, but so what happened to me? I mean, did it, do I not, did I learn something? Whoa. And you tell me. Well, I mean I would, I have to measure it against doing it again. Yes. Okay. Okay. And, and also, how did you feel when you came off? Well, I felt fantastic. And how did your body feel doing it?

It was surprisingly heat producing and energetic rates. A lot of internal [inaudible] and heat, doesn't it? Yeah, I did. And so I did. I felt great. I felt, um, if the mind came into my actions, it tended to first be like, just relax. Don't judge yourself. But that, that didn't, I couldn't hold that long cause that could figure it out. Yeah. And, but the most important thing about balance training when you start balance training and you know, we now know through research that the most, the biggest dysfunction of movement is a rigidity strategy where all that big muscles get really tight to try to hold [inaudible]. Yeah. And the most important thing when what you did was go relax, which is where we start balance training. Because if you tried to tighten up, it makes it worse. It makes it worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it was, it was, it was interesting. And I guess I, um, I knew, you know, I've heard so many people talk about it and so I knew that was the idea of it.

Um, I didn't think it would be that fast. You know, I've worked on rollers and you know, and, and this, this to me, I, you know, you spoke about the different ranges. Yeah. And what do you think? It's maybe a little, it's not shocking, but what's so valuable is that they can happen. Okay. One second. It's here. One second. Is there, it's depending on how you're holding yourself. Yeah, absolutely. And so, um, there's a bit of an unwinding feeling from me cause I feel a rotation and right. And so that's the experience I had. Um, yeah we want that unwinding experience because that's what the whole point of it is, is that as someone who works with Fascia is that we know how much the, the body when it talks creates lots of tension through the connective tissue.

That unwinding is, is an integral part of actually changing someone's movement. It's also where we hold our old emotional patterns, our old, you know, like our [inaudible] fences, you know, we hold all of that in. Right. Instead of out fashionable systems. Kindly refraining from saying that I almost started crying cause I could breathe at the end of yesterday. But yeah, cause there was a release that yeah, it is a really reliance yeah.

Chapter 3

Daniel explains the shape behind the Oov.

Tell me about the shape. Okay. The shape is okay. I hear it. I know it's a bit of crazy. Okay, let's, what some people, it's my blog texts.

[inaudible] exactly. So I'm sales the sales subliminal thing, right? And it's also quite sculptural. I really like, but the, I do the shape is actually just a pure geometry. Okay. It's just a pure geometry. And, and what I tried to look out, cause when we in the medical device industry, when we're creating a device, yeah, we don't look at just the shape of a joint. We map the geometry and how that joint moves three dimensionally, right?

And we look at that geometric pattern and try to actually create devices that help mimic that. So there's a whole area of design called biomimicry. And the medical device industry is really, it's really is biomimicry. Um, so what I tried to look at was the three dimensional mechanics of the spine and create to create a geometry or, uh, that actually mimic that. So when you're honored, it's mimicking your movement and or automatically turns into a self-correcting device. So, and why it looks so organic, well done is because I've used 'em concentric spheres coming together to create little football shape. So I'm sure you can see that, but the ratio that I've used is actually Fibonacci or five, which is the golden mean, the flower of life. That all life form, even cells replicate when we, when you know, going in from, you know, from conception to a blast, a sphere that even cells, you know, replicate using that ratio, every gonna, Cacti, Cacti, the most beauty, you know, like everything, you know, even though legs from out, you know, is in, even from a hip to a shoulder to a head in, you know, roughly in that ratio, everything's getting really exciting. Everything grows in ratio. So for me, the idea was to actually, if I'm going to mimic how you move then nature and I've got to use and nature and like some girl like w you know, standing on the shoulders or John, so I'm not even professing to anywhere near that. But like, you know, Davinci Vitruvian man was, you know, Fibonacci, you know, caboose boozier, the architect, you know, like, and um, who created, who did this book called modular where he was trying to map the ratios of the human body and he was designing furniture and spaces around that, you know, and I studied all of them and you know, so what I'm doing is not new.

It's just all I've done is taken all of what they've already done and apply it to a different, a different thing, which is a spine and how that works. What does it stand for? Um, the way we came up with the name, the branding, go lay on, oh, for the first time. And it was the first sound that came out of her mouth. She went, Ooh. Um, which I mean, yeah, that was it. And then we came out with that. She came up with lots of names, but that's how she came up with that first name. And then when we googled it, it stands for out of vocabulary, out of vocabulary. And I thought, that's brilliant because we are creating a new genre. It will movement, you know, and uh, so we love out of vocabulary. There isn't a word that describes really and, and, and then the last play on it was for move. Right.

And we want to create movement. We are, you know, we want everyone to move, you know, isn't that what we want everyone to do and, and we want something that actually facilitates that movement. Um, so you know, when you lay on it, did you feel that your body was free to move as opposed to lying on something flat? Yeah, it had to. It had to, it was allowed to and, and it's an vocabulary for me means that I don't have to speak to it. Yeah. I guess that's a reason there is not just about this, it's about, I don't have to speak to you. And did you notice also when you started working on it and we had lots of practitioners and therapists who work with it, they noticed straight away that people go from looking out and they start to actually, their eyes start to in. And for me that is, that is the goal. That is, that is, that is what we want. That is the flow state. That is that. And I think it's because the brain's getting so much information perceptively from everything that it's, you know, it's getting so much from that that it's like, don't, I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't want to listen to you right now. I'm busy.

I'm busy. And it's right. It's, we're getting keep learning. Yeah, exactly. And we become, we become unconsciously competent. It's, which is what we want everyone to become is unconsciously competent. Like where they're able to do things without thinking. It's what we do. We don't think about you gotta turn glutamate on first and then glute Max and then, you know, like, yeah, and then, then you gotta take this breath in right now because our brand heartbeat, but our brain doesn't work that way now. It doesn't matter. We don't have to, that's all in the background. Oh, we need to think about it as moving and where we want to go and what we want to do. And isn't that amazing that we've got the opportunity to experience these organisms like that. But so that was all part of what were, what I tried to create is that experience.

How long did it take you to create it? Where do you want me to start? The idea came up. It's crazy. I drew the shape on a fly. I was going to see my family in Europe and I was leaving New York and I drew the shape in 1995 just for Christmas, 1995 right. And, and it took me to actually had this shape already shaped. This side profile actually drew it. So it was, you know, whatever you play, maybe I was showing it. And, and then from there took me until about 2000 and I think it was about 2005 2002 actually figured out the geometry. So I reverse engineered it, looked at the mechanics of the spine, and it took me that long to figure out the mathematics and the geometry behind the shape.

And then after that I started developing prototypes in 2007. Um, and the hardest thing I wants to, once we got the design and the geometry, that was easy. It was like a cad bang. It was beauty. It was exactly what we needed. We modeled it. It would all work well. The hardest thing then was actually there was no material that would do what it would do, which our material, we developed three years, sorry, three years of three years of work to develop this material and journeys all around the world to do that. And what makes it different is that, you know, most phones are soft and they can press and then they stay compressed.

That whole idea of it is almost cradles you and it supports you. And we had someone in a course last weekend, you know, felt like she was in a very vulnerable, but also she felt like she was nurtured in, in that space as well. Um, and we wanted it, I wanted it to be soft and comfortable, but compress only to a point. And then after that it starts to push back. And because there's not a straight line in it, it pushes back in.

All right. And then you get these, this stance that your body goes through between dancing with, with, you know, and that's, that's, you know, and also, you know, I've sat on lots of unstable devices like Bosu. Yeah. And they're brilliant. We use bows who's definitely involved, but if you notice that the instabilities are really big grass, they gross, they bring, they bring in global. Yeah. Where hopefully you felt yesterday that the [inaudible] is really small, so it's all fine motor. So it's all the little muscles. It's all the stabilizing muscles that have to start to work and constantly readjust every time you moving. And that's the point. That's what our body's doing three-dimensionally in space all the time.

Tell me what, what's changed for, let's say the patient that you originally thought, you know, well, what's changed for kids? It's blown my mind. What, what, what we're doing with it now. Because I've like, I was lucky enough to work with some people who really helped me put all of this together. I, you know, like there's a lot of people who put, you know, the, the structure behind what we're doing and what we're teaching now. Um, but what has really changed the most is that now when I work with someone, I just observe and, and I'm learning to watch them. I become the student and I think damn it, their body is teaching me. Yeah. As well as them experiencing and learning at the same time as well, which is what's amazing. So then everything becomes an assessment. To me. There is no right or wrong. You know, we looked at someone the other day whose head was when they first got onto the head was out to the side and their knee was printed in and it's like, and they were like, NSA, let's leave them. Let's see if we can change something and get him doing something. And then as he started with, as we started creating more movement somewhere, his head started to align itself.

So everything for me now becomes less invasive and more about what information can I give the body for it to correct itself, which is what it's going to do. No. And, and, and so then I'm just more a facilitator and rather than making someone do something, which I definitely was guilty of. Oh, in the past 20 years on the, first of all I had done well, um, I know you've been working with Telstar and Brent Henderson, we're going to bring him in and a few to talk more about the science that instructure I think that you all are using, he's using and what he knows about it from research. Um, but one of the cool things we did yesterday up at the studio was the legs springs using the move with the leg springs at comparison. Is there anything you want to talk about that yeah, before we show it definitely were part of, um, just what I was speaking about before is that what that facilitates is creating space to encourage movement and, and what's really nice through what we did with those leg springs is that it actually, by putting the pelvis up off the ground and having that person having to control their pelvis three-dimensionally, then it creates space for the hips to actually move. Now you've got this big bone on the outside of your hip called the greater trocanter. And if you start doing leg circles on something flat, it's going to get to a point where that bone is going to actually inhibit and hit that surface.

So your pelvis has to compensate or move to create that movement. I see. Um, so that demonstration was really nice to see that, that by creating that space then we facilitated movement. But what was really interesting with Aaron is that she also started to feel with one side or the other where her movement was really restricted, where she didn't have that experience when she was lying flat. Right. That's very, very cool. Thank you. Um, let's bring Brent in. Sure. Man. See what else we can find out. Thank you.

Chapter 4

Pilates Anytime instructor, Brent Anderson joins in on discussions about the Oov.

So we're back with our dear friend, Dr Brent Anderson. Thank you for being here and thank you for introducing me to Daniel. Um, I know there's something more special going on than I think I've been able to extrapolate yet. So I'm, I've asked Brent to come in and tell, tell us more about what's going on, but maybe start with, um, why you made sure I knew who Daniel was and why you want the whole [inaudible]. Sure, sure. I mean, I think we can go back even further than that. I mean, uh, you and I both share something in common where, um, we tend to be a little more on the purest side of things that we do. Simplistic, um, let the body do its thing. Yes. And so I'm not, um, you know, I probably get approached once or twice a month with a new device and new prop, a new machine, a new methodology of somebody looking for a pollster to endorse them just like they look for a plot is anytime to endorse the other sources. Same thing. And a number of years ago I met Daniel in Australia to conference and um, you know, he was having sort of like this great thing going on and you know, and I, of course they didn't think too much about it that time. I thought it was like, oh, another prop on the market, another device.

And went on and, and um, Daniel had worked with some of our folks that teach in Australia and they'd had this really good experience and they were like, you know, brand new, really need to take a look at the, if you really need to take a look at it. And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Daniel made the effort to come to United States and was looking for, you know, people to work with in the u s and he was on a trip and he stopped by and it was at that time that I actually got on the move. Daniel took me through a session. I was actually suffering with some shoulder issues and some neck issues and, and a lot of few employees, they know that I'd had a fusion in my neck about five years ago and I had this amazing sort of connection where it's like, it was just like this incredible shivering and quaking going on in my body as I was just trying to do a simple elevation of the arm.

Realizing that my nervous system was so damaged from the surgery and the compensation post surgery, it was probably more than compensation. And I had this real emotional physiological shift that took place in the organization, in my right shoulder. And I think that was my first impression. And then over the last, you know, two years now and making this sort of come to fruition that we could actually bring it and bring education to the United States and other parts of the world had just been one thing after another have seen, you know, how amazing, uh, the devices and more importantly sort of Daniel's methodology and his approach to assessment. And we found it so harmonious with our teachings and sort of our philosophy in Pollstar of experience and allowing and you know, really being able to let the, the nervous system do his job and let the Fascia do his job. That is because you're doing education through Pollstar.

So, so that is the case. Full disclosure. And now you do have classes on transparency, right? You do have classes on place anytime, but there's, I'm wanting to get to the heart of why would you do you know, maybe why would you go to Pollstar bourbon rather? Why would you bring want that through? What is it about it? Well, can I answer?

First of all is the brain's been teaching spontaneous organisation of the body for over 10 years. And that's what this system, and I think that what you know, the [inaudible] does is it's a practical example of how when you put the body into spontaneous organization, you get a shift and you get a change. Is this like when you talk about the balloon that's exactly like that. Yeah. We use, we use the image to create an opportunity for the nervous system to reorganize yourself and lengthen your neck and, right, right, exactly. So rather than telling a muscle contract or hollow, your dominoes would have to poke for this. You know, we have some great research now that actually supports us in this philosophy of spontaneous organisation and we're really excited to look at the relationship with the diaphragm, which I think is one of the most powerful outcomes spontaneously of the oof is getting people to reorganize the utilization, the diaphragm, spontaneous. And I think in the plots world we get so fixated on the powerhouse and the abdominal wall in and Halloween and lifting the pelvic floor that we're actually creating an activist sufficiency in the diaphragm, which is one of the worst things you could do for health as you, they're going to squirt cortisol out of your adrenal glands. I mean you're going to put yourself in a really great Devad state.

I get negative. We're now making a correlation between pelvic floor dysfunction where we're thinking that it was the kegels in the pelvic floor activity in the plot activity that was helping in continents and we're finding out that probably is more the breathing re-education that shifted the organization in the pelvic floor and pelvic floor dysfunction. And so this is really sort of a breakthrough as well. And we've been playing on the move and doing ultrasounds, looking at the diaphragm and the pelvic floor relationship. We just started, you know, we've put together a proposal on a research project to really look and see what is it in in the move. When you go on that inferior position, I mean we think we know theoretically and philosophically, but to actually see it work where you put somebody down and you see the inhibition of things like the intercostal muscles and the obliques, the accessory muscles, yes. And to watch the rib cage just sort of melt over the move.

And obviously you see this, and again, we don't want diaphragm just to be a belly breath. I mean, that's not a fun, that's not a functional breath either. We want to see the diaphragm working by expanding full 360 degrees, right? It's just going out. And so when we see somebody in the position, there's just a belly breather, accessory breather, and within seconds literally dissolve and go into a natural, spontaneous dive, pragmatic breath. It's healthy. That's impressive. And again, it's like how do we, you know, you asked me a question as well of, you know, why am I aligning myself with Daniel with Uber? And I think it's, you know, we're always seeking for better ways to teach movement.

We're always seeking for better ways to understand. We're always looking, I have no problem with, you know, blowing up a theory if it means that I'm going to be a better teacher of movement. If it means I can facilitate somebody to get healthy faster. And when you see change happen immediately in spontaneous in people's bodies where you know, they've been carrying around this burden for 20 years of thinking they have this meniscus problem or this ankle dysfunction or this, you know, abdominal wall problem or digestive problem and all of a sudden you just shift one little thing and boom, everything changes. Now, and I'll give you a perfect example. I was telling Daniel today, I had a professional musician come in the office this week and she was complaining that she's having tremendous, she's a violinist, tremendous problems with the, the fine motor in her left hand and having pain in her left shoulder, elbow. I'm even a little bit of neurological stuff going on that takes for two hours to warm her hand up before she can play, um, at the level that she wants to play. And the other interesting thing is we were talking about the tone of the instrument, the sound in the instrument. And so as I was watching her play, I saw her again, I was a little show looking upper extremities, but I saw her standing, sitting up and playing. And I started watching her, shifting over to try to find a stable place, almost like to be able to pull the instrument into locking her down to the right side. And I said, you know, let's try something. And I took the oof and I literally just stuck it right underneath your seat like this, which again is a little phallic, but she sat on it, put her foot on the ball and I put her back up and it was within literally a minute or two a plane.

You could just close your eyes and you could hear the tone change. And she started crying. I was immediate. And then she said, you know, usually takes me two hours to get my hands to warm up and it's been two minutes and I feel completely warmed up in agile in my hands. And in playing. So I mean this is the kind of change where you're looking at somebody who's been dealing with this for five years. Do you have to be a physical therapist to notice that? Someone on that? Um, no, I think you have to be a movement specialist and I don't even, you have to be that. I think you just have to sit on it. But I mean it's not just from movement specialist is it? No, that's what I'm saying is like, you know, she's so excited about it as a musician she's thinking I'm going to go back and make all my violinists learn how to sit on this sort of unstable surface that allows the whole fascial chain and the nervous system to reorganize.

We talked about before is that to keep that three dimensional communication going throughout all of the fat or tissues with your body. That and as soon as we sit down, that tension goes out of her. I just became the instructor again like how am I supposed to know? No, and you did. You're learning fast because those old habits, but it's also forcing you to allow the shift and it's exactly what Dan was talking about. She was looking, this is what we do. Our compensation is often we'll go to a place that we brace and that we lock down to think we got the rigidity. Right. So if you think of, you know, what's the most common rigidity? Disease neurologically is Parkinson's disease.

That's the most common one. And you think that the reason why they have so many falls and so many injuries is because of rigidity strategy. They cannot correct the loss of balance, right? They don't have the ability to correct. They can't adjust their body to that. But we create a rigidity strategy because of fear, because of pain, because of previous falls, previous injuries, external stress, emotional stress, one of the largest actually heard Pedro's Sullivan's work. Emotional stress affects motor control almost as much as pain.

And we all know how much pain affects motor control. It's right there. They tap from the same center, they create a protective mechanism and you know as soon as you can break through that, and that's why we see that quite often in parties. I mean, I remember 25 years ago and I was so impressed doing feet and straps with a woman that had chronic low back pain and you know, she didn't have anything mechanical. All the MRI tests were all negative. Actually it was a myelogram back then. It was long before the MRI and put her on the plot is she broke down crying and started confessing. Well, we did have that moment. But you know, this is, this is what I'm saying is that, you know, we don't even understand, you know, not even a quarter of a percent of how our body functions. I mean we're trying, right? But it's understanding like the fashion system we're learning now, the tubules are filled with photons. They're penetrated into the nuclei of the cell. It's collective consciousness.

It's thought, it's emotion. All of these things are working together for us to understand our environment. And when you, when you take the environment, when you take your environment and you put it in something that biomechanically is sound but never still, the system has to adapt constantly. And when that, when that system is adapting, it is, it is an organic systemic organization. And I'll tell you the thing that we did with this, with that musician is we created the challenges of really finding the dynamic stability in the pelvis. So she really liked is Daniel refers to like the global stabilization.

And as soon as she created the global stabilization, she was free of anything that she thought was restricting her. All of a sudden it's like her shoulder girl could actually move into position that now our hands had had biomechanical advantage or maybe she was stabilizing through her for her to shoot through her soul. [inaudible] rigidity, lost rigidity because something has did I sold you? That's right. And if this isn't something else for us of where to take her foot off the ball, don't get a stone but your the foot off the ball and immediately her tone changed. You took her off, the Oo in the tone changed and she goes, no, put the ball back. You know, put the Little Bat oh immediately. And I said, well here's the thing honey, you don't have to learn to find that without oof. But this is the beauty of it is like if you can feel that freedom and you can feel that control where it's at and their dynamics are there.

Where we started doing was getting her to feel her body free and so that this arm was very free rather than holding. And that's why she was getting the tendinitis. We see somebody at tendinitis and healthcare and we're starting, you know, getting into the tenure's like let's massage and attendant, you know, irritates something. It's already irritated. So, you know, it's like we talk about this, you know, um, in imposter, we talk all the time, distribution and movement equals distribution of force. So when you see aside that, like Daniel talks about where you have a more stable side and a more mobile side, more gesture side, like we talked about in dance, and you keep trying to create a stability out of a side that's more mobile and you know, you, you, you don't understand it. And so you create compensatory patterns.

But when you're going to have all of a sudden you understand it, you don't have to, you all, you don't have to express it. You just feel it and you're like, I'm going to fall off the Uber if they don't reorganize and find a new way of, right. You've got to find a new way to organize. And this is what we talked about. It's like spontaneous. This is the key. It's like, it's gotta be spontaneous. It can't be through words. It can't be me saying Christie hollow your abdominals. No, I have to create them.

I have to create the environment as the teacher that is going to demand that the nervous system solve its own problems. And I don't know what those problems are to be honest with you. I can just see them sort of manifesting and unfolding. I know what the manifestation of the problem is because they have pain. They have limitation or decreased performance. Yeah, but don't you have to, I'm just somewhat playing devil's advocate and I somewhat believe it too. Um, so you have to teach a movement pattern initially or no, I mean I guess not.

You could just say move your arm here. Yeah. I say alignment and load are the two biggies. And if you have an environment that allows you to facilitate, this is where our training has to be advanced. We have to understand the biomechanical alignments, like with data. The genius of what Daniel did is the biomechanical organization that not only plays with a biomechanic, but it plays with the neuromechanics. Right.

It plays with the neural fashion mechanics. I'm going, we can keep talking about all the different things that we're seeing that adapts into, but it's understanding that it talks to the tissues of the body. Yeah. And I think that's, that's the question. Yeah. It's just giving information and we are frequency. I mean we are frequency. What I see you and hear and hear and feel. It's all frequency that we're dealing with electromagnetic waves. It's, it's all frequency and we only process what we understand.

Right. Can speak fast but also fill it, these talks about like lying on the [inaudible] flow, right? It's, it's Muzak for the body. It's very like there is not a lot of, you know, frequency and information that we need to give that party, that frequency, you know, enhance the geometries inherently a frequency. That's right. Well the whole point of it is, is that is, is that it actually taps in, you know, into all the different points infarct. Yeah, no. Right, exactly. Huh. It's a self self tuning device. They actually, a body body has to find its own tune on that. And that changes every day. Huh?

If you're saying, if you're saying, Huh, you're saying huh? About the implies anytime man. So it's, I do have heard you talk about spontaneous organization for years and [inaudible]. Um, I thought I got it. I think I get it. Um, and can even apply it whether without the UHF or at least the idea of it, the idea of not necessarily directing quite so much of the body with cues or even touch maybe. Um, so I, I'm interested in what I felt like from my experience, which only really one, I had a brief one and I actually tell you about that in a minute. But um, my experience was, was that there's something in the ownership and the, the constant changing that was happening, but I wasn't stressed.

So I kinda tend to look at it applicable to life. You know, I tend to do that. It's is how, because for me, movement is the exploration of my body, but how I'm reacting to my world too. So when I was on it, it, it, I understood it differently than I did before. And I guess it's the three dimensional piece of it that now takes it. That's so great. Easier for me to sit here.

That's one music to her. But the fact that you experience your, what you do every day differently is, is really what it's all about. And it's, you know, I would love to know that we could, I am, I don't really care if it's become hocking about it cause I'm really trying to get behind the idea of it. And it's really hard to explain it with, cause it's actually not in a gang or gang or like an intellectual thing. It's actually an experience isn't it? You know, I use the foam roller for example, and that one is sort of a Kachin play and catch and release or you get good at that particular exercise. But this one, even when you felt comfortable and stable, you'll come out there and still in there, you know, and you, you're still having those when you see the quivers like that, everything today, I didn't do that today. I mean that's a quiver is telling you the change happened and is happening. Yeah. That quiver. And even you fill it like the day two after you still feel the low corporate vibration frequency. Yeah. And that's what we're looking for. And I think, you know, when, when we go in manually and do my fascia release and you know, we're listening to the body, we're placing our hands and we're listening to the tissue and we're waiting for the crystal formation of the Gel to transition and to change.

And you know what, I think of that? I think that I've heard somebody say that our factual system is like a three d printer, you know, three d printer and it's always reprinting us. So the fact that we're sitting here for an hour, we're gonna stand up, we're gonna look like chairs. But you know, that's why every day is a different situation. It's not about, you know, movement to us is not about, oh, I learned that already. I learned how to do Palladio's already. Right. I learned how to do Gyrotonic already. I learned how to yoga already, you know?

Right. And it's, that's not what it's about. It's about the daily practice of movement. It's about how we locomote it's running. It's, it's how we make love. It's how we, um, carry our suitcases. It's how we get dressed. It's how we go to the bathroom. It's the day to day things and they, let me bring it back to Joseph PyLadies right? Cause we're applied his company, you know, Joseph said the first requisite of happiness is being fully capable of performing our mini days, very daily tasks, spontaneously and naturally with pleasure and zest. And I think when we got so caught up in the fitness, the rehabilitation world of core control and abdominal strength and get those glutes working and get this work and it's like, you know, it's not that I'm anti muscle.

I think sometimes people think that I'm anti muscle, not at all. I want the muscles to work. I just know that they work at a much higher level of intelligence than I have. I'm not, I mean, how do you tell a muscle to work verbally with your mouth when it's working at 50 milliseconds? You can't. And so, you know, it's like can you create the environment though? Can you create that environment that the load of gravity or whatever you're putting on him demands that those tissues were correctly and the right amount and as you practice it, do we become more efficient learners of that movement and that passion, that organization, as we change velocity, does it become more functional to the natural activity?

We're going to perform like we're going to go wa running. You know if you just do dead bugs, FEMA ARCS really slow. It really doesn't have any application to walking fast. Right? Right, right. So somehow you have to transition that into things. Well think about it. I mean we don't see at this, it's like we have to understand that load, velocity, alignment, these are all the real elements that teach.

These are our teachers. Gravity's our teacher. And when you create a service like what the device that Daniel created, you know it biomechanically is sound. I think that's the first thing and that's what I had to experience and that was my intellectual side going, this better be freaking sound down because I'm going to be promoting it to the world. It better be sound. And it is sound right. And the next thing was is what is the outcome? What kind of outcomes are we getting and does it fit into the idea of spontaneous outcomes?

And it totally supports our concept of spontaneous outcomes better than we ever expected. I mean we know that, you know, one of our things is we just create these little tiny shifts in people's bodies and we know that we see these big changes, but to have a tool that I could say, Hey Mary, go home to sleep on this thing when you're doing your texting at night, just lay on it for 15 minutes and then next week we'll teach you one exercise. And to know that that was my mandate by the way, even if you lay on it and did nothing, it would still be doing something. That was my mandate and actually developing the interesting that was like, cause a lot of ever don't want to go and do exercise, but even if they just lay on it, did nothing. It's still be doing. So when you're home on your move, just even the basic positions that Daniel shows you, I mean, just getting those positions and those positions. Um, I used to train, analyze and I realized how ridiculous it was for me to be doing that when I learned from mine. And so that you don't even have to know about any of what you're talking about, but, but not at the experiential level, you know, that's a teacher thing to, you know, to analyze it. Um, you know, I think it does require, you know, depth, right, of course.

But the beauty of it is that at the user's level, it's an, and it's, and it sounds so, it's like just get on it and try to do different things. It was like, um, you know, one of my kids was messing around on it and had gone through the training with Daniel and, and just, you know, I see her all the time just laying on it and doing things on it and try new things on it and watching her program or doing her homework, laying on her stomach and freedom. I'm thinking like how awesome of an alternative to sitting at a desk. Yeah. Is it for me to see her laying on a mat, on a move, on her belly, working on a computer thing and thoracic extension. I'm in a, to me, I'm such a hard ass on that, you know, the posture, the sittings, the new smoking kind of things. Like, you know, we have to be moving all the time and this creates that spontaneous movement at a very cellular micro micro level. And I think that's the beauty of it. It's like, you know, I even, you know, I always here's the proof and the pudding is always, we don't graduate anybody from Pollstar if I don't think I would trust them working with my mother. That's, that's sort of my thing.

And I would say I have all the measures in the rubrics. You know, it's like, you know, you could be the best theory, but if I get this gut feeling that I wouldn't let you see my mother, you might not pass the test. Right. And, um, you know, I let Daniel work with my mother, right? [inaudible] 79 year old has to know sooner names to know, send a low back. But you had a really cool experience even just laying her on on the roof. And I was actually doing a, a, um, clinical, uh, video and in the time that just getting phone comfortable and we had six towels on the head and as I was just explaining how I got around and to get her on safely, we took three of those towels away as her shoulders relaxed, still wide open and, and her head started to come back and she started to spontaneously organize her body to you. I'm saying, and I didn't, and I didn't even touch her. I didn't do anything with her. You could see the changes in her body, even just laying on it in a couple of minutes. And that's what's amazing. The body is amazing.

I came in after the case study and I saw her standing there with like this, like I haven't seen her shoulders like that for 30 years and it's not me. It's not, it's the body is about amazing. Yeah. It just needs the right information to change. It's amazing. That's why I'm doing this too. Cause I, I kept looking you up and, and I don't know if you remember saying this, but okay. I was like, who are, you can't find you. Who you, it's not about me. It's not very new. It's not as few people that you can't find on the Internet somehow. And you're very hard to find. And that's exactly what you said. You said, it's not about me. And I get it. I get that.

And it's about creating that change. You know, like we want it, this is a change I want to say in the world yet I want to actually, I believe that we can empower people to actually take control of their bodies and, and, and be, you know, driving the car. It's one of the things, it's like you're driving the car is always what I say to my patient, me, you know, and I really want to see that, you know, and, and so it's not about me. It's not about who I am. It's really about this isn't a tool or a device that can facilitate your learning about yourself. And that's what's powerful. Yeah. And, and I'll take that one step further is when the body has that kind of an experience, we know that the mind and the spirit have that experience too. And so when the body has that, uh, an increased level of consciousness, it becomes conscious also of the impact it has on others. And so this can, this is full circle. We shift consciousness shift and you know, we do that as politely as teachers all the time. We do it as yoga teachers and we're just looking for methodologies and understanding to be able to make that shift faster. Um, you know, when there is a, uh, critical majority or critical mass of people that are living in increased consciousness and awareness is when the real change happens in the world.

And that's one person at a time. So the more tools, the more devices, the more methodologies, the more knowledge we have, the more science we have to be able to facilitate that awareness. And that change isn't just about changing somebody's posture. I mean, as good as that is, but when people, you know, stand tall, I mean, just the experience of when we're down here, it's very hard to smile. It's not a natural thing, right? Just fascially the connective tissue. But when you come up tall, it's easy to smile. It's hard to frown. And so we were coming, you know, after I did the move, you know, I felt so happy and so light and then, you know, I went back to work and I felt, you know, sad again. But it's like, well do the [inaudible] at work. You know, it's like do pull out. He's at work, do your gyro at work.

And that is because it's that, that whole system and the systems moving and vibrating and the, the fashion is not maded down. Right. It's actually very much moving and dynamic and changing based on our activities. We're conscious, we're alive, we're connected in the universe. And also what we talked about before is that that when you see someone in it, I go within everybody. It's no longer them looking out. They start to look in. And I think that's a really important experience for someone to shift their consciousness because they get [inaudible] of interest or experience themselves.

And I think for us to create a change, we need to stop looking out and see what everyone else is doing and what, you know, not ourselves, no ourselves, because that's where the change styles. Tell me you want to know about my ex [inaudible] you guys did ask, come on please come on and tell us many times. And you always put me, you've always gone tell, tell us, tell us, come on. [inaudible] tell us about your experience. My experience, I don't know that I really have words honestly yet, but I [inaudible] when you said that fashion batting down or it's not matting down, I that resonates. Um, and I'll try to put it all together in a second that, um, you know, there's the obvious wow, you know, initial sort of thinking, but instantly something else starts happening. You know, like I can feel this side of my abs that I can never seem to locate. Um, and so I'm now, I'm just like you say, I go in and I'm there and the call is that it they came on on their own. They imagine having to queue that rather than going for the body into position, trying to queue it to myself. [inaudible] right, right. So, so there's that. Um, but I, I think the easiest way for me to say it is at the end I felt spacious.

I felt like I could breathe better. And for me that's um, not only desired, but it's also a conflict I tend to have with myself, you know, um, spent a lot of time trying to take up less space. And so I think there's a, that goes hand in hand. So that again, right. Say that again because I think we need to hear that comment that you spent a lot of time trying to take up less space. And that's a very aesthetic kind of, you know, spatial heading. And it's also very emotional. Like I'm, I don't want to take up too much space and space is crucial. Weird, big, energetically, energetically weird. I know know, and I'm not saying it was all, it was aesthetic for sure.

It was definitely emotional, but it was also, you know, [inaudible] if I let you see everything, yeah. Then I'll have to do it. I, you know, I can, it's like my own power in a way that's sometimes the scariest. Yeah. So, so, and I'm, I wasn't in, I didn't get in your class to change my life and I won't even go that far now. But I do think that, um, it, I felt spacious. I felt open. I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't talk. Right. We were, we're going to maybe chat. I wouldn't have had to drive down here. No, but I couldn't, I didn't want to, I wanted to just be with that feeling of bigger, taking up more space and, um, being comfortable with it too.

And I didn't have to go to a therapist manual or otherwise. I didn't have to, um, practice necessarily anything. Does that make sense? Yeah. Um, I mean I up, I guess it does to you, but I, and the movements were all familiar. We did [inaudible] right. And, and not necessarily the most challenging for a lot of these exercises. Very simple, very, very simple. And, and [inaudible] I think the spaciousness along with that internal or introspection. Yeah.

Um, oh, lands and a connection to the mind. So you've, there's a general sense of solidness for me. Um, last night and today I'm not in this moment for some reason I'm a little quivery, but, um, yeah, it's a sense of, and just sort of feeling solid and yeah, I guess being, yeah, and mindfulness and mindfulness cause it's really like mindful movement. Yeah. Because yeah, experiencing I suppose. Yeah, I suppose that's it. It's a mindfulness that um, can so easily be taken away. But this, you know, didn't come from, okay, I'm gonna Meditate for a minute. No, I didn't have to do, I just did what you said and, or the best I could. And that it gave that same sense of, Oh, right, I'm here now. I'm part of this world on this body. And, I dunno, it sounds a bit grandiose the way I'm describing it, but that's the, if I had to say physically it would be the breath, which I still feel like I can do better. And also, um, just expansive and that's what we find is actually doesn't go away. Yeah. It actually stays with people for a lot longer. Yeah.

Because your body's learned in a different way. You know, like sometimes, you know, if you do exercises or rehabilitation or therapy with patients is, you know, that bounce back happens quite quickly and within days there's a change back. But because the body's experienced it and learnt it differently, it seems to hold longer. For me, there seems to be an organic newness to it. In other words, if I can breathe and contract and I feel expansive and yet I can sit here for two hours, um, all right. It starts to, I start to recognize my flow within contraction, expansion of my heart and the breath of that world. The, so it's just a little bit as if I feel connected. Um, I can't wait to do it again, but I just mostly was trying to figure out like how do we do that? And, and even since I sat down, I know we don't need to know. I don't need to know actually. But, um, I think it's an important piece of where we're heading, hopefully in, in all movement, but politely too. And that's, that's why I felt very comfortable just largely on your education. And speaking about that though, speaking about that, just you said just even in polarities, but imagine that people that are really struggling with basic extras like roll up. I mean, they really struggled with a roll up and it's because their body doesn't understand what it needs to do. Right. And we tried to tell it segmental movement and hollow and lift and all these different things in it, the body doesn't understand that. But as soon as it has that feedback mechanism at the cellular level, at t 11 t 12 l one l two, all of a sudden the body goes, oh, that's, that's what you meant I supposed to do.

So even when you use it just as a tool to teach the plos exercise that I can put them on to the chappies table or the Mat and get a roll up out of somebody who didn't understand the up and this taught them how to organize themselves to do the role up correctly or how to organize the freedom in their hip and how to organize that relationship is Dana talks about the ribcage to the palace and we're always looking. Yeah, we put a horrible word on there. The core control for so long to really what we want is we just want connectivity and communication between the thoracic cage and the pelvis because it's so crucial to the movement that we do in our daily lives. And so I think, um, even at the most basic level, it's really powerful. I think the, some of it for me might be any time that I can become more organized and more of myself without thinking the better. Spontaneous. Well, thank you so much for sharing it with [inaudible] anytime and then explaining it because it's not a prop, it's not new plot. He's apparatus. It's, it's so thank you so much for having me. Thank you for helping me understand. Thanks, Dr Brent. Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Good to be associated.

As always.